Karen:
Today's guest is someone I know well and just think is super cool.
Dr. Kryn McClain is not only a licensed professional counselor and trauma
therapist, but also the founder of both Paragon Behavioral Health and
CatapalloVR. Kryn blends heart, innovation, and leadership to reimagine what
therapy and education can look like. She uses immersive virtual reality to
expand access, build real-world skills, and lift lives. Welcome, Dr. Kryn
McClain. I'm thrilled that you are here today.

Kryn:
Thank you for having me.

Karen:
I actually don't think I know the backstory behind you becoming a
doctor. How did you end up on this path?

Kryn:
I was working at a company where I felt kind of out of my depth.
When we go to school to become therapists, we don't learn how to become
leaders, we learn how to become therapists. But once you're a really good
therapist, you naturally gravitate toward leadership. I was hired for a
leadership position and felt like I didn't know what I was doing, so I decided
to go back and earn my doctorate in healthcare administration. I didn't want
the psychologist route — I had the clinical piece already. I wanted the leadership
skills and a better understanding of administrative responsibilities.

My mom was a therapist for over
40 years, so growing up watching her help people got ingrained in me early.
After undergrad, during the recession, I decided my undergrad degree wasn't
going to cut it, so I earned a scholarship for a free ride to St. Bonaventure
University and got my master's without taking on more debt.

Kryn:
When I went for my doctorate, I didn't intend to start a business —
I wanted to stay and help the company I was at. My wife and I decided to start
our family, which meant going through the whole infertility process: a
miscarriage, five or six attempts before we finally got pregnant with our son
Anderson, who's eight now. It was emotionally and physically draining. We were
so excited, I took my maternity leave, came back to work, and got a pink slip
saying my position had been eliminated. I was enraged — I'd always gotten great
marks, I was building the program, I was clinical, I was revenue-producing. It
didn't make sense.

So I thought, how do businesses
start, and why can't I just do it myself? I rallied a partner, and that's
exactly what we did. We started out thinking we'd just be a private practice,
and we grew it to 80 people. That's Paragon. Nothing like a little female
warrior rage to start a business — channel your inner Viking. We founded
Paragon on the pillar that we need to care for our people first, whether that
means spotting someone about to burn out, taking things off people's plates, or
protecting the overachievers from falling down too.

Kryn:
I applied to be a Vistage speaker and developed a presentation
around three pillars. First: regulating yourself. We can't regulate somebody
else if we're dysregulated ourselves. I teach leaders about what's happening
physiologically in the body — how do you slow your heart rate, release the
tension in your jaw — so you're in check before you try to de-escalate anyone
else. My advice: acknowledge the emotion you're having, label it, then remind
yourself you're safe in this moment. My coach once told me to go scream into my
backyard, just not at the person I was mad at.

Second pillar: recognizing
patterns of behavior in others, not diagnosing, just being aware enough to
notice when someone has something going on. A lot of people at the top only
hear what others think they want to hear, so you have to look deeper — you're
saying this, but I'm seeing this, help me understand the difference. Third
pillar is rewiring your culture: my son told me the Eiffel Tower is crumbling
because they just keep slapping coats of paint on it instead of making
structural repairs. I ask leaders, are you going to slap paint on your culture,
or make real structural changes so people feel safe being themselves?

Karen:
Tell me about CatapalloVR and how you're applying technology to
behavioral health.

Kryn:
We created a platform very much like Netflix or Hulu, categorized,
with about 200 learning modules focused on different areas of behavioral
health. Research shows that when you learn in VR, you learn four times faster
and retain it 75% better than talk therapy alone. For a disengaged teenager who
doesn't want to go to therapy, being handed a VR module gets them to open up.
More recently we've also started helping businesses build their own custom
training modules, because PowerPoints just aren't sticky — and if people don't
retain safety training, they fall in a hospital or get hurt on a machine.

With Penn State Health, we
built a fall-prevention module that trained over 400 staff in 60 days, and
their fall rate dropped from well above benchmark to well below it — and stayed
there for over three months, the first time in their recorded history. St.
Joseph's Hospital's fall rate is now almost zero. We also sell three pillars
into corporate: workplace conflict resolution, since 70 to 80 percent of people
are never trained in it; stress reduction modules, like guided meditation in a
VR Zen garden or beach; and team-bonding exercises through VR escape rooms.

Kryn:
We're about to announce a partnership with the Adeline Rose
Foundation, a local Berks County nonprofit that helps families who've
experienced the loss of a child, including funeral costs and mental health
therapy. I'm close with the founders, Adam and Chloe, and when I asked if they
had any training needs, they told me first responders need help with the soft
skills for when they arrive at a scene with a pediatric death. There's a
training gap — they know how to secure a scene, but not always what to do after.
We're deep in planning and production on a module to help EMS, police, and
firefighters handle those moments with more trauma-informed confidence, and we
want to deploy it nationwide.

Karen:
Is there a turning point or challenge that's shaped who you are
today as a leader?

Kryn:
Joining Vistage was a big one, and meeting Joni, who was our coach,
really helped me understand who I wanted to be. I'm one of the younger people
in the group, and being around role models who've been doing this longer,
seeing how they lead and carry themselves, has an effect on you. You are who
you surround yourself with. The EQ piece was huge for me — regulating myself
first, not being reactive if someone has an issue, and not letting guilt
paralyze me when I make a mistake. Being held accountable by a coach and a
group that checks on you, processing issues out loud, is not for the faint of
heart — it's vulnerable to say, this is the business I created, give me your
feedback. But it toughens you up.

Our brains are wired for
survival, not happiness — that's a skill we have to learn. When something irks
me, I remind myself: a lion's not chasing me right now, death is not imminent,
I am safe, so I can calm my nervous system down and react in a way that's
clear, calm, and in control.

Karen:
What is lifting you today?

Kryn:
My son just started piano lessons — I started at the same age, and I
remember thinking I couldn't wait for my kid to do this someday. Watching him
push through frustration instead of giving up has brought me a lot of joy. And
my younger one, who's a year and a half now, is just coming alive with his own
personality. We're a fully left-handed household except for my wife, which
drives her nuts. We don't have family in the area, so we really have to bond as
a unit and figure out how to help our boys live great lives and work through
things together.

Kryn:
As women in business, there's this higher expectation to be a good
businesswoman and a good mother, and I don't think men feel the same societal
pressure. My son asked me recently if it's hard to start a business, and I told
him yes — there's no one above you to help. He said, I guess the help I gave
wasn't good enough, because he'd made some modules for us. I was floored — of
course it was amazing. He actually designed his own dinosaur escape room, and
we programmed it for him. It's better than what I could have come up with
myself. We try to involve him however we can, even bringing him into the office
on half-days for donuts. The business takes care of you, but only once you take
care of your people — and I hope that's something he remembers.

Karen:
Dr. Kryn McClain, thanks for sharing your story and all the powerful
ways you lift others. Through your businesses, you show what compassionate
leadership looks like, and through CatapalloVR, you're proving that innovation
and care can go hand in hand.

Kryn:
Thank you. Thanks for having me.